Personally I can not imagine a bad seller in eBay making references
in his listing to a bad sellers or fake artifacts list. Or to
fakebusting groups.Wish they would.Group members would grow fast.
Ramon Saenz de Heredia.
This weekend and next I'll inform c.60 newbies (10 communications per
day is the limit on eBay)who have bought fakes.Will ,if possible,
report on results.
--- In Ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com, "tuppennyblue" <tim@...>
wrote:
>
> Hi Rolf
>
> With respect, I disagree that if an item is not on a fakes list
that it would enable someone to say that it must be genuine. If an
item is not on the Art Loss Register, does that prove that it is not
stolen? If someone is not wanted by the police, does that prove that
they are not a criminal? A Fake Art Register along the lines of the
Art Loss would seem a great idea to me.
>
> Tim
>
> From: rolf5568
> To: Ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, April 25, 2008 7:49 AM
> Subject: [Ancientartifacts] Re: Opinions please
>
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> Thanks for the clarification.
> I don't know the details of Bron's early warning system but I
agree
> that anything which could possibly prevent fakes from being
> circulated must be a good thing. One concern would be that lists
> of "bad" dealers or mass-produced fakes can be used to the
crooks'
> advantage... i.e. what's to stop someone claiming an item must be
> genuine because it does not appear on a list of fakes? And if a
> seller of fakes has not yet appeared on the rogue's list, could
this
> in some way legitimise their offerings, especially in a rapid-
> turnover environment such as Fleabay?
> I'm sure the indefatigable Bron has a solution!
>
> The Good Dealer List seems excellent, its a shame objects can not
be
> classified in the same way on a wide scale. Its interesting to
see
> that a couple of high-profile names who (deservedly) do not
appear on
> the list have sparked a few concerned emails and hopefully saved
a
> few collectors from being stung: great stuff.
> Cheers,
> Rolf
>
>
> --- In Ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com, "tuppennyblue" <tim@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rolf
> >
> > I was referring to one specific London gallery: sorry if my
> inappropriate capitalisation and pluralisation was misleading!
The
> gallery is definitely a respected, legitimate ADA member. As Bron
> says, he has refunded, so has behaved entirely honourably.
> >
> > Bron's idea of an early warning system for dealers is an
excellent
> one, and to make it available to collectors is even better.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: rolf5568
> > To: Ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:12 AM
> > Subject: [Ancientartifacts] Re: Opinions please
> >
> >
> > Hi Ramon,
> >
> > If you buy an item from an ADA member which is later considered
> > questionable and the dealer is not able to resolve the problem
or
> > disputes your assessment, you have the benefit of being able to
> ask
> > the ADA to make an independent arbitration on the matter. This
> means
> > that the item will be assessed by the ADA's governing committee
> > (which includes several of the world's leading dealers) and
they
> will
> > provide an opinion based on their combined knowledge or from
> further
> > investigation if required. If the seller's description was
found
> to
> > be inaccurate, then that dealer would be asked to conclude the
> matter
> > in a way that would ensure the satisfaction of the buyer and
the
> > reputation of the association.
> >
> > See: http://www.theada.co.uk/code.htm
> >
> > Tim mentioned some questionable shabtis sold by London
Galleries
> > (capitalised) - there is no ADA member trading as London
> Galleries
> > listed on the ADA website. If you meant galleries in the
general
> > sense, then sorry for being pedantic ;-)
> > If a dealer claims to be an ADA member but is not listed on
> > www.theada.co.uk I would strongly recommend avoiding them
> completely.
> > If they are prepared to lie about association memberships
they're
> > probably also prepared to lie about their stock. I would also
> advise
> > any potential buyer to apply caution on any website which
claims
> > to "abide by the code of conduct" of the ADA: this is a
> nonsensical
> > statement unless you are bound by it (i.e. a member) and means
> > absolutely nothing. This is sometimes stated in good intention
by
> non-
> > members but it can also be used to mislead buyers and imply
some
> sort
> > of safety net on purchases.
> >
> > If you find a dealer/ebay listing/website claiming to be a
member
> of
> > the ADA and can not find them on the ADA website please report
> the
> > details to the ADA secretary (details on www.theada.co.uk) or
> myself
> > at www.heliosgallery.com
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rolf
> > PS My answer to Ramon's question is my own understanding of the
> ADA
> > rules based on my long-standing membership, but please ask the
> > association directly if you would like an exact clarification.
> >
> > --- In Ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com, "Ramon Jr"
> <rsdeheredia@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > How does the Antique Dealers Association act when this type
> > > of situation occurs.
> > > Ramon Saenz de Heredia
> > > --- In Ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com, "tuppennyblue"
<tim@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > ...and again to add that some of these fakes are VERY
> DANGEROUS,
> > > being unwittingly sold by ADA member London Galleries and
> bought by
> > > highly experienced collectors. I strongly recommend studying
> the
> > > pictures and learning the types.
> > > >
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Dik van Bommel
> > > > To: ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 7:44 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [Ancientartifacts] Opinions please
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ushabtis are fake, see Bron's site for more info about
> PadiIset
> > > http://www.collector-antiquities.com/230/
> > > > carpe diem,
> > > > dik
> > > >
> > > > ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
> > > > Van: sam rezoski
> > > > Aan: Ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Ontvangen: dinsdag 22 april 2008 19:39
> > > > Onderwerp: Re: [Ancientartifacts] Opinions please
> > > >
> > > > shabtis look " not uthentic"
> > > > lamp too but good price as a reproduction
> > > > I dont know what boat it is ? it looks very strang
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ramon Jr <rsdeheredia@> wrote:
> > > > Pics no good.Sorry.
> > > > Padi...... shabtis
> > > > 310042683381
> > > > 310042683463
> > > > SYRO HITTITE BOAT
> > > > 310042683954
> > > > oil lamp
> > > > 310031328080
> > > > The buyer really liked it
> > > > Beautiful addition to my collection--thanks! magnus_j (
> > 231)
> > > Apr-19-08
> > > > 12:01
> > > > ANCIENT ANTIQUITY ROMAN OIL LAMP WITH SATYR FACE
> > > (#310031328080) GBP
> > > > 35.00 View Item
> > > > Ramon Saenz de Heredia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > --------
> > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
> > > Mobile. Try it now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > > ----------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG.
> > > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release
> > Date:
> > > 22/04/2008 15:51
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1394 - Release
Date:
> 23/04/2008 19:16
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.4/1396 - Release Date:
24/04/2008 18:32
>
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