[Ancientartifacts] Re: Making a contribution

Hi Trevor,

I may have missed your solution suggestion. What was the post?

I would love to deal in only items from sites that were looted long
ago or from old licensed digs but I don't think there is enough on
the market to satisfy demand. I think every dealer and collector
would prefer that but where will the inventory come from? I don't see
demand decreasing so all parties will benefit if reasonable and
flexible solutions can be found. Draconian strictures on antiquity
collecting or even a total ban will never stop the trade. The
underground market would grow and become more ruthless and the
material would just disappear into secret collections.

(I get some items from old collections occasionally. A few years ago
I was able to liquidate the remains of an ancient coin and artifact
collection that was put together in the 1930- 1960 era and by the
gentleman and his father and grandfather. It was much more
interesting than the pieces I generally see. Still, though
everything was strictly legal, I am sure sites were still destroyed
to get it, just long ago.)

As for my own collecting and my major business inventory, I stick
with antiques but even there I can't pretend I can state where a
piece came from or how it was acquired. When dealing with 18th
century furniture and smalls, there is always a pretty good chance
that at least some items I handle were stolen at some point or
obtained by ruthless and deceitful tactics. I can attest to recent
ownership but I usually can't say where an item was 25 years ago with
any certainty. Even if you buy modern furniture, you are likely
contributing to rain forest depletion and the bulldozing of countless
archaeological sites that will never be recorded. Nothing is likely
to be untainted in some manner.

As a totally off topic aside, is anyone concerned about the digging
of World War 1 and 2 sites? There are huge numbers of people finding
old bunkers and emplacements all over Europe and excavating them.
People use old photos and military maps to find them. Lots of Ardenne
Forest found items on eBay these days. I get links to lot of images
from the digging. It is dangerous as the ammo is often very live but
they find incredible stuff. At the current rate, the WW2 sites will
be dug up and gone long before the Roman sites in Bulgarian.


--- In Ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com, <ursa_one@...> wrote:
> ---- letitflyantiques1 <sgminor@...> wrote:
> > No, the same well travelled road.
> I'm not so sure. But I can appreciate where you're coming from. As
I think I mentioned previously, the antiquities market was only
mentioned in passing on rare occasions while I was studying. With
eBay and other similar avenues for selling antiquities, it becomes a
lot clearer what's going on. And, as I'm sure you understand, that's
why there are moves afoot to bring in new laws or policing
requirements regarding antiquities. Or, in the case of the U.S., more
investigators apparently.
> Personally, I prefer to collect antiques. There are fewer ethical
considerations and probably higher turnover rates for dealers.
Instead of eBay, I enjoy going to live auctions and handling/viewing
the pieces as well as seeing who I am bidding against. Unlike you
(maybe), I purchase for myself, not for resale value.
> I don't think that there's any question about what will happen in
the next few years re. antiquities ie. tougher policing of places
like eBay. And this process was probably accelerated by what happened
(and apparently, is still happening) in Iraq.
> > I have learned a bit but don't plan
> > to change a thing about what I buy or sell at all other than ask
> > English sellers if they can provide export licences. I have
> > that I can buy legally exported stuff from the UAE and Israel but
> > customers don't want it so I will continue buying from English
> > German metal detectorists as always. I just admit it, other
> > and their customers don't want to face the facts.
> I wouldn't be surprised if you get a lot of repros from Israel
anyway. Used to see them (antiques) at live auction here. If they're
doing antiques, I expect antiquities ain't that far off.
> > Unlike yourself, I can still listen to other opinions without
> > offended.
> Yes,...but you're not 'engaging' in the same sense I am. Who says
I'm offended? Are you sure you didn't misread all that quoting you
put in the previous post?
> > We just disagree, you think archaeologists have some sort
> > of cosmic hegemony over everything in the ground, I don't. I
> > think the desires of archaelogists are any more important than
> > desires of collectors.
> Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Archaeologists are university trained to
dig the stuff up using "Best Practice". It's as simple as that.
> I did suggest a solution. You ignored it.
> Trevor.


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