| Hi!! It has not been established that Ernie is unethical in his dealings!! And think it very unlikely but these things must be proved in England a person is innocent until found guilty still state Ernie dealer with very high principles thank you chris -------Original Message------- From: Melissa and Kelly Date: 06/06/2008 09:17:36 Subject: RE: [Ancientartifacts] Re: 'Good' Seller with poor COA. Fakes v other errors. HI There, To: Ancientartifacts@ From: rsdeheredia@ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 08:12:09 +0000 Subject: [Ancientartifacts] Re: 'Good' Seller with poor COA. Fakes v other errors. I know, Stephen. My post was an answer to that of Kelly Thomas. Ramon Saenz de Heredia PS. I reiterate I am open to discuss the dealers to avoid list.I will propose a few names on Monday. In Ancientartifacts@ wrote: > > Hi Ramon, > I am not suggesting that Passage to Antiquity should go on the list of dealers who sell fakes. But I am suggesting that if Ernie Krumbein persists in refusing to even acknowledge that the jug may be more restored that his COA described and in refusing to give me a refund if that is indeed true, then he does not deserve to be on the List of Good Dealers - a list he compiled himself! He deserves to be in limbo, on neither list. > Cheers, Stephen > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Ramon Jr <rsdeheredia@ > To: Ancientartifacts@ > Sent: Friday, June 6, 2008 8:34:10 AM > Subject: [Ancientartifacts] Re: 'Good' Seller with poor COA. Fakes v other errors. > > > Correction. Please read unethical dealers. > Ramon Saenz de Heredia > In Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com, "Ramon Jr" <rsdeheredia@ ...> > wrote: > > > > HI. > > The dealers to avoid list includes sellers who sell > > FAKES. And as I have posted often not the accidental fake. > > If it included the latter you would find there two dealers > > mentioned yesterday : Harlan J. Berk and Gorny and Mosch. > > ( And many others.) > > There is quite a distance between a forgery and a misdescription. > > Be it of a restoration. And if fakes occasionally pass even expert > > dealers,why not a restoration. The question of refunds is ethical, > and > > I am sure Ernie (he has the right to intervene) will refund. > > If any one wants to open a list of ethical dealers ,OK with me. > > I will participate. I would propose that to go into the list > > you need a third strike. > > Ramon Saenz de Heredia > > > > --- In Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com, Melissa and Kelly > > <v8vibr8a@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Well... > > > > > > As a newbie that is an absolute showstopper. Doesn't it just make > > you cast your mind back to where dealers that are on that avoid > > dealers list are fighting for themselves and being shot down on > this > > group and yet one of the most knowledgeable (from this point of > view) > > is falling short of the mark. > > > > > > Shame on you Ernie. Do the right thing, there must be some sort > of > > compromise. > > > > > > Kelly Thomas > > > New Zealand > > > > > > > > > > > > To: Ancientartifacts@ : churley482@: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 12:58:29 - > > 0700Subject: Re: [Ancientartifacts] Re: 'Good' Seller with poor COA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > > > I can now report that the seller of the jug is none other than > > Ernie Krumbein of Passage to Antiquity. The very person who has > > compiled the 'List of Good Dealers' for this Group. How ironic! In > > light of what I have said already, and latest developments, I would > > like his company to be removed from the 'List of Good Dealers'. Or > > perhaps a new list should be compiled of "So-called good dealers > with > > meaningless COAs". > > > > > > I gave Ernie a number of options: > > > > > > (a) give me a full refund of $500 for the jug (as per his COA); > > > > > > (b) I try to sell the piece on eBay and if it sells he refunds me > > the balance up to $500; > > > > > > (c) he categorically refuses to give me a refund. > > > > > > Ernie has chosen (c) sadly. He has also refused to tell me > whether > > or not he believes the jug has more restoration than his COA > states; > > and he has refused Rolf's offer to look at the jug to give a second > > opinion on it. > > > > > > All Ernie says is that because I have "altered" the jug by using > a > > tiny bit of acetone, he will not offer me a refund. He has not > asked > > to see a picture of the jug to see if it now looks different. And > his > > COA does not state that the slightest test on the piece will > > invalidate the guarantee. > > > > > > I know very well that dealers do test pieces with acetone to see > > whether the surface is original or restored. I have done so with > some > > pieces I have bought from other delears - dealers who deserve to be > > on the 'List of Good Dealers' - and on the rare occasion that the > > surface is not original I have obtained a full refund. > > > > > > So would the modifiers of the Group please accept this email as > my > > formal request to have Passage to Antiquity removed from the "List > of > > Good Sellers". > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Stephen Churley > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----From: David K. <romulus2x@> To: > > Ancientartifacts@ : Thursday, June 5, 2008 7:32:41 PMSubject: > > [Ancientartifacts] Re: 'Good' Seller with poor COA > > > > > > Hi Stephen,Then you have a clear case of misdescribed goods. I > hope > > the seller honours their obligations. David K.--- In > Ancientartifacts@ > > yahoogroups. com, Stephen Churley <churley482@ ...> wrote:>> Hi > > David,> Thanks. In this case I don't think it would be fair to > > stretch the word "around" too far because the area I am questioning > > is indeed the main body of the pot, not the areas immediately > > adjacent to the junction of the handle and neck with the body. > > > Cheers, Stephen> > > ----- Original Message ----> From: David K. > > <romulus2x@ ..>> To: Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com> Sent: > > Thursday, June 5, 2008 6:58:05 PM> Subject: [Ancientartifacts] > > Re: 'Good' Seller with poor COA> > > Hi Stephen,> Just a comment on > > the linguistics ....> If the COA had stated "the handle and neck > have > > been restored" the situation would be clear since those would be > the > > *only* areas to have been restored. But the wording "has been > > restored *around* the handle and neck ..." is more ambiguous and > > could be taken to mean not the handle and neck themselves but the > > areas of the pot immediately adjacent to them, i.e. the body of the > > pot.> However, from what you say, it sounds as if the restoration > > extends well away from just those areas - so the COA was wrong.> In > > any case, having said all that, if I was the dealer I would simply > > accept that the customer was not happy and refund.> David K.> > > http://www.romulus2 .com/henjack/ > > http://www.romulus2 .com/lamps/> > > > > --- In Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com, Stephen Churley > > <churley482@ ..> wrote:> >> > Hi Ramon,> > The COA mentions that > the > > piece "has been restored around the handle and neck and is in > > extremely good condition". But it appears there is also restoration > > to the main body of the pot as well. I have tested small areas of > the > > piece with acetone and the red surface (which is supposed to be > > burnished) comes off easily from both the restored and unrestored > > areas. I have other red burnished pieces of similar age and culture > > (4500 years old from the Middle East) which I have tested with > > acetone and the burnish does not readily come off. > > I would > rather > > not circulate a picture at this stage because if I reveal too much > > about the piece members of the Group may be able to identify the > > seller. I would prefer to keep the seller anonymous at this stage. > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----> > From: Ramon > Jr > > rsdeheredia@ ...> > To: Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com> > Sent: > > Thursday, June 5, 2008 4:21:42 PM> > Subject: [Ancientartifacts] > > Re: 'Good' Seller with poor COA> > > > > > Is "extremely good" the > > only mention to condition?.> > Or does COA mention restorations, as > > you seem to imply.> > "I have discovered that the pot is more > > restored that his COA > > described.." > > And to what degree.> > A > > pic in photos section would be nice.> > Ramon Saenz de Heredia> > -- > > > In Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com, Stephen Churley > > > > <churley482@ ...> wrote:> > >> > > Hi everyone,> > > I am having a > > problem with a piece of ancient pottery which I > > bought last > year > > from a dealer who is on the 'good' list and who is a > > regular > > contributor to this Group. I will refrain from giving his > > name > > for the time being. > > > I have discovered that the pot is more > > restored that his COA > > described. His COA has a 'Description' > > section setting out the age > > and culture of the piece and also > its > > condition which is said to > > be 'extremely good'. The COA also > > says:> > > "I guarantee that to the best of my knowledge and belief > > the above > > described antiquity is authentic and from the period > > given. Should > > this piece ever be shown to be other than as > > described we will gladly > > refund the full purchase price."> > > > > The seller is refusing to refund my money on the grounds that the > > > > > COA's description refers solely to authenticity not to condition. > But > > > > the 'Description' section does also refer to condition. > > > > It > > seems to me that condition cannot be dissociated from > > > > authenticity here. If the seller had intended to do this he would > > > > > have had a separate section in the COA entitled 'Condition'. > > > > > Either the COA is a serious document to be taken at face value or > > > > > not. This seller appears to be dodging his responsibilities. > > > > > > I would value your opinions and advice. > > > Cheers, > > > Stephen > > Churley> > >> >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ > > > Find singles in your area with Match. > > > http://a.ninemsn. com.au/b. aspx?URL= http%3A%2F% 2Fmatch%2Enz% 2Emsn% > > 2Ecom%2Fchannel% 2Findex%2Easpx% 3Ftrackingid% > > 3D1043416&_r= WL_EMAL_TAG& _m=EXT > > > > > > Click here Find singles in your area with Match. | |||
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