Re: [Ancientartifacts] Re: Please help

Dear Group:

I will try to address this is one fell swoop.   In some of my listings I actually refer to this group for information--I believe it can provide a useful service.

My concern was the impugning of my reputation without knowledge or evidence by Messr. Krumbein. 

Yes I am an attorney and I do avail myself of legal recourse to protect my rights--as any intelligent person would.  When I asked Ernie what compelling evidence he had to take such a drastic measure  without the most basic courtesy of any contact--I took umbrage--since he could give no evidence and acted as if he were doing me some major favor.


I only became aware of a problem when someone was interested in the Zeus and mentioned the site being mentioned on a bad seller list by expert dealers--needless to say the item was not purchased.


In a post below--the patent fakes or to be more charitable "questionable items" were addressed--but I will reiterate some.

The Egyptian piece was formerly of Windsor gallery.  Is he on the bad seller list?

The Roman Zeus was from a Laguna Beach collection/friend(also an attorney) and was purchased by him from the Forum Shop At Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas-a decade ago.

The oil lamp which seems to have been the catalyst was purchased at the Long Beach Coin show where it was prominently displayed from an antiquities dealer who I have good experiences with, id est The Time Machine, Mark Reid. 

The Ebay site is a an outgrowth of my hobbies  where items are listed for me from overflow of my collection and a those  of a couple friends.

I am an infrequent visitor to the site--but I have had dealings with a few members.  For example a bronze Bacchus and Roman bronze priest were sold to Fangiwelo--who I believe is an experienced collector. 

He later returned both items because he thought they were fakes--both items were subsequently vetted and sold on Arteprimitivo's last auction--this is easily verifiable.

So there can be a problem with even an experienced collector authenticating some items in hand. 

I also sold an Attic cup with Pegasus--formerly from Sands of Time also to someone on this site.

The Geometric bronze was even seen by one of the sites resident expert and someone at the Getty.

Moreover I have asked someone to review the listings who is on this site  and any "fakes" will be removed. 

Please take this in the spirit it is given--as stated In some listings I refer to this site because of all the knowingly fraudulently sellers.

Maybe each week the site could start vetting members listings/site?

Thanks for your cooperation.  I can also be reached directly at Robert1@alumni.USC.edu
Since I have neither the inclination nor time to monitor any all relevant listings.

I can be contact





--- On Wed, 4/30/08, Steve Minor <relicdigar@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Steve Minor <relicdigar@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Ancientartifacts] Re: Please help
To: Ancientartifacts@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, April 30, 2008, 3:51 PM

Did anyone contact the seller before placing his name on the list? I
really do not think anyone needs to prove their innocence as it is
far more important to argue that someone is guilty of selling fakes
before they are denounce.
I do not argue that his name should not be on the list as his stuff
is not as stated, in my opinion but I would always email someone
first.
I would not worry much about libel suits. They are very difficult and
one must prove actual harm and an intent to do harm, I believe.
crossing state lines to sue for libel would be tough.

Maybe the name of the list needs to be changed to something
like "Recommended Sellers" and "Sellers we do not recommend." You
can't be sued for failure to recommend.

--- In Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com, "Steve"
<maximusopinionus@ ...> wrote:
>
> --- In Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com, Kim Ghobrial <euroburms@>
wrote:
> >Hi Group.
> I believe that Mr Walpole should argue his case that his items are
genuine and not
> threaten anyone who has the knowledge to dispute his listings.
> Very Democratic Mr Walpole !
>
> Regards Steve S
>
> > Here, here, I agree totally on this point.
> > Kim
> >
> > Brett wrote:
> > > B.S. - Ernie is just trying to get more opinions to back up
what he
> > > already knows. Having more than one eye on the items is always
a
> > > good idea. I applaud his and Ramon's efforts on the list that
are a
> > > great help to new collectors. If the list confuse you, and you
want
> > > to buy from dealers that folks here know are selling fakes,
knock
> > > yourself out, but prudent buyers will use these list for what
they
> > > are intended. As a rule, if it looks like a duck ..........
> > > Brett
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com, "danigre25"
<danigre25@>
> > > wrote:
> > >> Jeff,
> > >>
> > >> This is exactly my point. That's why we are on the group, to
learn.
> > >>
> > >> When an individual, especially a seller, compiles a list of
other
> > > sellers to avoid, the least
> > >> you expect is he has enough knowledge to judge the good from
the
> > > bad. In this case Ernie
> > >> is asking the group's opinion and that is after his judgement
of
> > > the seller. In other terms,
> > >> he is not sure the items are fake or even doesn't know if they
are
> > > fake or authentic. This is
> > >> totally confusing, unjust to the seller and leaves one to
wonder
> > > how he based his
> > >> judgement.
> > >>
> > >> Group members are left with a confusion and, rather than
learning,
> > > they are completely
> > >> mislead. How sure is anyonef this sellers items are fake ? Not
sure
> > > at all. In that case Ernie
> > >> is getting himself into trouble if the seller decides to take
him
> > > to court.Whether you call
> > >> that "bad sellers" or "sellers to avoid" it comes to the same
thing
> > > and is inaccurate and
> > >> probably made for self-benefit.
> > >>
> > >> Sorry, Ernie, I don't mean to insult you but that's how it
looks.
> > >>
> > >> Daniel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --- In Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com, "JEFF HALLEN"
> > > <jeffhallen001@ > wrote:
> > >>> But isn't that why we are all here? To avoid getting ripped
off
> > > by unscrupulous/ ignorant
> > >> dealers? We have a list of good dealers/bad dealers before and
no
> > > one has complained
> > >> until now. This is after all Ernie's opinion and everyone can
> > > choose to buy or not from this
> > >> seller or any other seller on a list. Perhaps we need to get a
> > > lawyer for this forum to create
> > >> some verbiage explaining that.
> > >>> Jeff
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>> From: danigre25<mailto: danigre25@ >
> > >>> To:
> > > Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com<mailto:Ancientarti facts@
> > > om>
> > >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 9:16 AM
> > >>> Subject: [Ancientartifacts] Re: Please help
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Dear Ernie,
> > >>>
> > >>> I am new to this group, but reading through the last two
days
> > > messages, I understand
> > >> you
> > >>> have compiled a bad sellers list.
> > >>> From your message below I also understand you have included
> > > someone without even
> > >>> being sure if he is good or bad. You are asking the opinion
of
> > > the group regarding his
> > >>> items and that is after including him in the bad list. Do
you
> > > realize what implication
> > >> this
> > >>> can have if he decides to sue.
> > >>> My advise, if you are not sure or don't know about a
subject,
> > > in this case antiquities,
> > >> don't
> > >>> you think it is best not to get yourself into a situation
that
> > > might have undesired
> > >>> consequences. Please be careful.
> > >>>
> > >>> Daniel
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In
> > >> Ancientartifacts@ yahoogroups. com<mailto:Ancientarti facts%
> > > 40yahoogroups. com>, "Ernie
> > >> Krumbein" <Passtoant@> wrote:
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I received a phone call this evening from a man (who had
to
> > > tell me four times that
> > >> he
> > >>> was an attorney) complaining about my inclusion on
the "dealers
> > > to avoid" list of a
> > >> seller
> > >>> on eBay by the name of CATO90025. I still believe some of
his
> > > listings of Egyptian
> > >> articles
> > >>> are very suspect.
> > >>> > Will a few of you kindly take a look at his offerings and
let
> > > me know what you think?
> > >>> > Thank you very much.
> > >>> > Ernie Krumbein
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>



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